Frank Zappa Song Were Turning Again
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| Post bailiwick: Nosotros're Turning Once more -- Zappa'due south Shame? | |
| Joined: Fri November xi, 2005 9:49 am Posts: 40 Location: S Loop, Chicago | I was reading Barry Miles' Zappa, which contains a fairly expert run-down on each album. On the Meets the Mothers of Prevention section, Miles really frowns upon the rails "We're Turning Once again."<br><br> Quote: 1 track, notwithstanding, drew even more attending than Zappa'south sampling of the senators. Zappa was still seething at having to role with money in unpaid royalties to the former members of the MOthers of Invention and his anger and resentment seems to accept been expressed in an boggling anti-sixties youth-civilisation track chosen "Nosotros're Turning Again." Information technology contained a mean-spirited putdown of hippies, described equally being totally empty, living useless lives and defective a sense of humour! He attacked their political activism -- maxim they were full of shit -- and fabricated a tasteless reference to the police force at Kent Land mowing down Allison Krause, the girl who had pushed flowers into gun barrels the previous 24-hour interval.<br><br>zappa, of course, had done nothing to try to terminate the Vietnam War. He put down the peaceniks for believeing in all the newspapers and magazines that (he claimed) defined their folklore. But a lot of this folklore had been written by Frank Zappa or pronounced by him in dozens of interviews in the clandestine press. He now completely dismissed the entire sixties youth move, its politics and its music, in i bad-tempered hissy fit.<br><br>Zappa and then went on to "joke" about the deaths of a roster of sixties rock stars who never did him whatever harm: he attacks Jimi Hendrix (who he was happy to have on the sleeve of WOIIFTM; Mamma Cass (a friend from Kirkwood Drive days -- here he perpetuates the myth that she choked to expiry on a sandwich); Keith Moon (whose fame Zappa was pleased to exploit to help sell 200 Motels); Jim Morrison (who he sometimes jammed with on the Strip); and Janis Joplin (who he was happy enough to sleep with). Tommy Mars, who played keyboards on the track, institute it extremely tasteless and then did many fans. This nasty, vicious song exposed Zappa every bit a cold nihilist with no emotions and no feelings for anybody else. <br><br>Ane, I don't call up the lyrics directly assault all of his big-name sixties acquaintances. He but mentions them and what they did. He actually sends out a plea for them to come dorsum because "All the assholes on the radio really need yous."<br><br>And two -- Zappa, every bit we know, wasn't big on history or nostalgia. Were he to trap himself in the threescore's with the Mothers, we wouldn't enjoy the breadth of his sweeping career today. Those whom he really appreciated (he never appreciated everything about a person), he would never slander in a mean-spirited hissy-fit as the writer suggests. He looked back and thought a lot of the sixties were stupid. Why is it okay for him to say the sixties were stupid in the sixties (WOIIFTM,) but not in the eighties?<br><br>What are your thoughts? Harmless retrospective, or tasteless, ingrateful assholery? _________________
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Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 iii:35 pm
| Huck_Phlem | Mail field of study: Re: We're Turning Once more -- Zappa's Shame? |
| Joined: Mon October 24, 2005 ii:56 pm Posts: 4716 | I don't know. I always wondered about that song my self. I take to say that it is one of my all time favorites but having grown up well-nigh SF and seeing them in the summer of love as a kindergarten age kid I just thought they were filthy worthless people. Then yea and then fucking what. I concur with it if that is what the vocal meant.<br>I always wondered if he meant it in jest or as an inside joke or something. _________________ |
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| Isaac | Mail service bailiwick: Re: We're Turning Once more -- Zappa'southward Shame? |
| Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2005 8:44 pm Posts: 7813 Location: Underneath Virginia | Barry Miles is an idiot. _________________ Jimmie D Fan |
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| Huck_Phlem | Post subject: Re: We're Turning Again -- Zappa's Shame? |
| Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2005 two:56 pm Posts: 4716 | It really does seem similar he writes more of his opinion that merely the true storys. _________________ |
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| BBP | Post subject: Re: We're Turning Again -- Zappa'due south Shame? |
| Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 3:45 am Posts: 12704 Location: EINDHOVEN | [quote author=Sam_Smith link=board=legends;num=1131838524;showtime=0#0 date=eleven/12/05 at 17:35:24]I was reading Barry Miles' Zappa, which contains a fairly proficient run-downwardly on each album. On the Meets the Mothers of Prevention department, Miles actually frowns upon the rails "Nosotros're Turning Again."<br><br><br>One, I don't remember the lyrics direct attack all of his large-name sixties acquaintances. He just mentions them and what they did. He actually sends out a plea for them to come up back considering "All the assholes on the radio actually demand y'all."<br><br>And 2 -- Zappa, equally we know, wasn't big on history or nostalgia. Were he to trap himself in the 60's with the Mothers, we wouldn't relish the latitude of his sweeping career today. Those whom he really appreciated (he never appreciated everything nearly a person), he would never slander in a mean-spirited hissy-fit as the writer suggests. He looked back and idea a lot of the sixties were stupid. Why is it okay for him to say the sixties were stupid in the sixties (WOIIFTM,) but non in the eighties?<br><br>What are your thoughts? Harmless retrospective, or tasteless, ingrateful assholery?[/quote]<br><br>Throw that volume immediately into the trash-can. It'south full of errors. If you want an insightful commentary on all Zappa-works, try Kevin Courrier's Unsafe Kitchen. _________________ |
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| dr_grogg | Postal service field of study: Re: We're Turning Once more -- Zappa's Shame? |
| Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 2:44 am Posts: 2067 Location: sweden | Zappa wasn't even into the mainstream sixties youth hippie civilization. He invented "The Freaks" of San Fransisco instead. _________________ |
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| Studebaker | Mail service subject: Re: We're Turning Over again -- Zappa's Shame? |
| Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2002 two:47 am Posts: 3362 Location: Netherlands | I'm non offended by this tune at all, I think it's kinda funny actually. Some might think information technology is in poor gustation to brand jokes about the deaths of these sixties icons, but it doesn't actually bother me, non being a child of the 60s myself.<br><br>Manifestly the original lyrics also included a joke about the people who got trampled to expiry during a Who concert, which is a lot more in poor taste imo, but information technology never fabricated it to the record. _________________ |
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| monstermovie | Post subject: Re: We're Turning Once more -- Zappa's Shame? |
| Joined: Saturday December 06, 2003 1:xx am Posts: 1169 Location: Europe | Barry Miles' book has been strongly criticized past numerous people. I recollect he actually missed the point of his book: Zappa himself.<br>There are many feelings in that song. Equally regards Hendrix and the others, we must remember (it's funny that Miles seems to be unaware of this) Zappa'south sad feelings about the death of people considering of drugs. Zappa was strongly against drugs. But in that song I think he really has a fleck of nostalgia, in that he seems to wish that Jimy and the others come up dorsum.<br>At least, this is the way I understood that vocal. _________________ |
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| Huck_Phlem | Post field of study: Re: We're Turning Again -- Zappa's Shame? |
| Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2005 ii:56 pm Posts: 4716 | I'k still trying to figure out where he was talking near Mama Cass????<br>Is he refering to "we tin visit large mama and whap her one the back when she eats her sandwich"? because I ever thought that was talking most some big black lady or something. That is one of the funniest zappa lines ever I remember!<br><br>Fuck Barry Miles anyway.<br><br>I love that song! _________________ |
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| sabrina2 | Post subject field: Re: We're Turning Again -- Zappa'south Shame? |
| Joined: Monday Jun 16, 2003 eleven:33 am Posts: 2328 Location: Centerville/USA | yes, Mama Cass died by choking on ham sandwich.<br> _________________ |
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| calvin2hikers | Mail subject: Re: Nosotros're Turning Again -- Zappa's Shame? |
| Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 two:41 pm Posts: 16960 | [quote author=SabrinaII link=board=legends;num=1131838524;start=0#xiii date=11/13/05 at 18:53:13]yes, Mama Cass died by choking on ham sandwich.<br>[/quote]<br><br><br>Cass Elliot's death was initially misreported every bit having been caused by her choking on a sandwich. The true cause of death, a eye assault, Mon, Monday was not determined until an dissection was performed a week later, just by that time the "ham sandwich" story had become entrenched in the public'due south heed.<br><br>The commencement reports of Cass Elliot's death said that her physician had stated she "probably choked to death on a sandwich", and the next solar day'south postal service-mortem reportedly "showed that she died as a result of choking on a sandwich while in bed and from inhaling her own vomit". However, Dr. Keith Simpson, the pathologist who performed the dissection on Elliot, found no traces of food blocking her trachea. Dr. Simpson and Gavin Thurston, a London coroner, and then determined that Elliot had in fact succumbed to a heart assault brought about by the effects of long-term obesity. Elliot had long been overweight (she stood 5'v" and weighed 238 lbs., most twice the proper weight for a woman of her height and build), and the prolonged effects of obesity and several crash diets had weakened her middle to the point of failure.<br><br>Although the initial news stories mentioned but that Cass Elliot had "choked on a sandwich", by the next week reports were listing a "ham sandwich" equally the fatal meal. This extra detail was virtually likely an embellishment added past the public every bit a sick commentary on her weight. (A rumor of choking to decease on food establishes the "glutton killed past his gluttony" prototype, and challenge the food was a ham sandwich drives home the point by introducing a reference to pigs.)<br><br>Other rumors surrounding Elliot's death (that she overdosed on heroin or was pregnant with John Lennon's child) were simply as ridiculous and unfounded. |
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| zliq | Post subject: Re: We're Turning Again -- Zappa'south Shame? |
| Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2002 6:21 am Posts: 765 Location: Cologne, Federal republic of germany | ??? doesn't make whatsoever difference, but you think FZ slept with Janis Joplin? Never heard of that one...<br><br>Well, the song is sarcastic, but so what?! I cannot see whatever slamming upon Hendrix though. In my reading FZ just sort of "quotes" some nostalgic folks who say "Jimi come dorsum and regulate my fuzz tone". And there even so is Non A SINGLE Rolling Stone issue for case where Jimi doesn't appear in some way. Is there? And so. Those lines is not really far from reality. _________________ |
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| BBP | Post subject: Re: Nosotros're Turning Over again -- Zappa's Shame? |
| Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 3:45 am Posts: 12704 Location: EINDHOVEN | Yes, acording to Barry Miles. She was apparently as well drunk to think afterwards. Poor Frank.<br><br>However in the notes Miles gave, he didn't mention the source of this information. _________________ |
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| dkaplowitz | Postal service subject: Re: We're Turning Again -- Zappa's Shame? |
| Joined: Tue May 06, 2003 9:26 am Posts: 1021 Location: Hacking the Gibson | [quote author=BBP link=lath=legends;num=1131838524;start=15#xvi date=11/xiv/05 at 10:x:12]However in the notes Miles gave, he didn't mention the source of this information.[/quote]<br>Maybe he should have cited his imagination, since he used that as a source for much of his anti-FZ screed. _________________ |
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| googly moogly | Post discipline: Re: We're Turning Again -- Zappa's Shame? |
| Joined: Sat Sep x, 2005 v:01 pm Posts: 1335 Location: the other twilight zone | [quote author=Sam_Smith link=board=legends;num=1131838524;first=0#0 engagement=11/12/05 at 17:35:24]I was reading Barry Miles' Zappa,...[/quote]<br><br> Quote: He attacked their political activism -- saying they were full of shit -- and made a tasteless reference to the police at Kent State mowing down Allison Krause, the girl who had pushed flowers into gun barrels the previous twenty-four hour period. <br><br>well, the true information technology wasn't the "hippies" who stopped that war,<br>althought anyone can interpret zappa's life the fashion they want,<br>one thing i always liked about frank is the fact that he laughed<br>nigh cheap political activism and mother teresa catholic thought of<br>helping others, the true is that hippies where a bit to high intheir dreams,<br>i mean in that location'll be trouble coming everyday not flowers and the idea<br>of a hippie world is comparable with the cheap lather operas and walt disney<br>idea of happiness, the happy catastrophe, nothing to practice with human nature,<br>about using stone stars to promote his work, he would had been to stupid<br>for not doing it, what should he'd washed? have hendrix janis and moon to his<br>house and take care of three fucked up addicts? only a mental retarded would do that, <br>even "helping institutions" exercise that but to have more power and money,<br>the affair that they talk like if they where heaven angels doesn't mean<br>they are non a bunch of manipulators, that'southward hipocrit, but that's what<br>"normal" people like, just expect how millionare is that asshole bono,<br>only put his wrinkled-ass face and everybody goes "ohhhh, what a nice guy,<br>doing and then much for the world", well, that'south for assholes.<br> _________________ |
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| Studebaker | Post field of study: Re: We're Turning Again -- Zappa's Shame? |
| Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2002 2:47 am Posts: 3362 Location: Netherlands | [quote author=dkaplowitz link=lath=legends;num=1131838524;start=15#17 date=eleven/xiv/05 at x:31:52]<br>Perhaps he should have cited his imagination, since he used that equally a source for much of his anti-FZ screed. [/quote]<br> <br>The worst role is that I've read several glowing reviews of this book in mainstream publications, while most Zappa fans don't like this 1 at all and quickly indicate out all the errors. _________________ |
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| Sam_Smith | Post subject: Re: We're Turning Once again -- Zappa'southward Shame? |
| Joined: Fri Nov xi, 2005 9:49 am Posts: 40 Location: South Loop, Chicago | Yup. I didn't go along with what he was saying, particularly at this point. In that location'south too much other, Improve Zappa info out there by real fans. Luckily, I didn't waste material any money on the book -- I picked it up at the library. Along with "The Perfect Stranger." <br><br>"Writing about music is like dancing about compages." _________________ |
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| BBP | Postal service subject: Re: We're Turning Again -- Zappa's Shame? |
| Joined: Sunday Aug 03, 2003 3:45 am Posts: 12704 Location: EINDHOVEN | [quote writer=Studebaker link=board=legends;num=1131838524;commencement=15#19 date=11/14/05 at ten:52:sixteen]<br> <br>The worst office is that I've read several glowing reviews of this book in mainstream publications, while most Zappa fans don't like this one at all and quickly signal out all the errors.[/quote]<br><br>Oor was negative. That was a bully review. _________________ |
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| polydigm | Mail service subject: Re: We're Turning Again -- Zappa's Shame? |
| Joined: Mon October 10, 2005 3:03 pm Posts: 7136 Location: Pouting for you? Punky Meadows, pouting for you?!! | So why did Zappa like this book? Does anybody have any background on this? I've merely heard 2d or 3rd mitt somewhere in another thread discussing this that FZ wanted Miles to go on a lecture bout with his volume. I'grand having difficulty finding sources to ostend this.<br><br>[center] [font=Verdana]^^^^[/font][/heart]<br>[center]Warning: Definite signs of dementia. See the following messages.[/eye] _________________
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| Studebaker | Post subject: Re: We're Turning Again -- Zappa's Shame? |
| Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2002 two:47 am Posts: 3362 Location: Netherlands | [quote author=polydigm link=lath=legends;num=1131838524;beginning=15#22 date=11/14/05 at 17:01:38]So why did Zappa similar this book? Does anybody have any background on this? I've only heard second or tertiary hand somewhere in another thread discussing this that FZ wanted Miles to go on a lecture tour with his book. I'k having difficulty finding sources to confirm this.[/quote]<br><br>I think that's Ben Watson's book called "Negative Dialectics of Poodle Play". Barry Miles' book was only published last year. _________________ |
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| polydigm | Post field of study: Re: We're Turning Over again -- Zappa's Shame? |
| Joined: Monday October 10, 2005 3:03 pm Posts: 7136 Location: Pouting for you? Punky Meadows, pouting for yous?!! | [quote author=Studebaker link=board=legends;num=1131838524;start=15#23 date=11/xiv/05 at 17:05:50]I think that'due south Ben Watson's book called "Negative Dialectics of Poodle Play". Barry Miles' volume was only published concluding year.[/quote]Oh, shit, got my wires crossed. And then, Ben Watson'southward book called "Negative Dialectics of Poodle Play" is worth buying and Barry Miles' book, whatever it's called should be avoided like the plague.<br><br>Pitiful for the slip up, folks, mea culpa. _________________
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